Subject: summary : even if

dear linguists , on linguist list : vol . 8-959 ( 25 / 07 / 1997 ) , i posted the following query . three people responded to my investigation . my great thanks goes to the following people . since their judgements varied , i labelled a , b and c to them just for convenience in writing this summary . a : m . lynne roecklein < lynne @ cc . gifu-u . ac . jp > b : laura gonnerman < gonnerman @ scf . usc . edu > c : gary h . toops < toops @ twsuvm . uc . twsu . edu > the query and summary are as follows . - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - i have been working on some probelms of the meanings of " even if " , especially the following so-called consequent-entailment reading of " even if " . please help me check the accptablities of the following sentences . are the following sentences acceptable or have natural flow of interpretation ? please put ok , ? or * in each slot and comments , if any . if the sentences you judge are unacceptable , what kind of context would you consider to increase the acceptabilities ? ( 1 ) ( a : * ; b : ok ; c : ? ) ( context : my employer is so puritanical that he would fire me if i behaved in what he considered a libertine manner . ) " even if " my wife smoked cigarettes , he would fire me , but , since she would n't ever smoke , he won't fire me . comment of a : the ' even if ' clause is ok with with " he . . . me " , but the second halfdoesn ' t match . no one would ever phrase this combination of ideas this way . it has a split focus . is the topic the extent of the employer 's puritanism ( first half ) , or the likelihood / unlikelihood of the speaker 's being fired ( second half ) . i find even my japanese colleagues do this split focus thing all the time . such sentences are extremely difficult and often impossible to parse in any natural way . it took several years of familiarity with japanese versions of english for me even to identify what is going on in sentences like this . i 'd love to know an effective way to explain to japanese students of english why this won't work and maybe more important , how to recognize that they ' ve pro9duced an illicit split focus construction . ( 2 ) ( a : ? ? ? ; b : ok ; c : ? ) " even if " you drink just a little , your boss will fire you , but , since you sruely won't drink at all , he won't fire you . comment of a : a ) " " even if . . . will fire you " is most easily interpreted as habitual , while " you surely * won't * drink at all " would designate a single event in the future . these sit uneasily together . b ) since drinking a lot is antithetical to drinking a little , the last clause must imply that the boss is thinking of firing the addressee for some other reason . in this case , interpeting the first half according to a ) above , there can be no connection between the firing and the drinking and the sentence fails by virtue of non-entailment . on the other hand , if one * goes back * and reinterprets the ' you ' in the first half merely as the addressee , then the sentence might be possible , given that condition b ) abvove represents the real state of affairs . it would also be implied that the boss needs just a little bit more reason to actualy execute the firing . the final clause would sound better with " can't " than with " won't " , however , in this scenario . ( 3 ) ( a : * * ; b : * ; c : * ) " even if " you drink just a little , your boss will fire you , but since you surely drink a lot , he won't fire you . comment of a : the action posited by the " even if " clause is already a maximum limit . the sentence is logically impossible . comment of b : but if you continue the sentence as below then it is fine by me . ( 3 ) ( ok ) " even if " you drink just a little , your boss will fire you , but since you surely drink a lot , he won't fire you , you ' ll get fed up and quit before he gets a chance . ( 4 ) ( a : ok ; b : ok ; c : ? ) if it doesn ' rain , the game will continue . " even if " it rains lightly , the game will continue ; but if it rains heavily , the rain will be cancelled . i ' m sorry i ' ve made a mistake here . the final clause should be , the game will be cancelled , as roecklein ( a ) pointed out . ( 5 ) ( a : * * ; b : * ; c : * ) if it does n't rain , the game will continue . " even if " it rains lightly , the game will be cancelled ; but if it rains heavily , the game will continue . comment of a : nonsense , in order and logic . comment of b : okay if you continue with something like : ( 5 ) ( ok ) if it does n't rain , the game will continue . " even if " it rains lightly , the game will be cancelled ; but if it rains heavily , the game will continue , but it will be moved to an indoor arena . ( 6 ) ( a : * * ; b : ? ; c : * ) " even if " the president were to get ingestion tonight , the cease-fire would end , but , if we resume negotiations with the enemy for a treaty of peace , it will continue . i ' m sorry i ' ve mistyped the word here too . ingestion should be indigestion . comment of a : i would imagine rather that indigestion would contribute to the end of the ceasefire . ( 7 ) ( a : ok ; b : ok ; c : ? ) " even if " my wife smoked cigarettes , i would not scold her , but , if she ever broke my favorite dishes , i would scold her . comment of a : " scold her " should nto be repeated at the end . very unnatural . ( 8 ) ( a : ? ; b : ? ; c : ? ) " even if " my wife smokes cigarettes , i will not scold her , but , if she breaks my favorite dishes , i will scold her . comment of a : underlying logic ok . i do n't like " even if " with the indicative present verb because i like to mark conditionals on the verb , but i ' m aware that this usage is in process of change . same proviso as above for the repeated " scold her . " the preferences of conditionals in even if clause over the indicative present are the same to all three people . however , i found many examples of the indicative type . this seems a matter of individual preferences . comment of b : ( 8 ) ( ok ) " even if " my wife smokes cigarettes at the dinner table , i will not scold her , but , if she breaks my favorite dishes , i will scold her . comment of c : to make sense of many of your contexts , i had to postpose the " even if " clause , e . g . , " i will not scold my wife , even if she smokes cigarettes . " placing the " even if " clause first in the sentence makes it more emphatic . my own summary : ( 3 ) and ( 5 ) are judged logically impossible as i have expected . but i do not understand laura gonnerman 's rephrasing ok sentence of ( 5 ) . ( 6 ) is also judged unnnatural to all the three people though i expected it would be ok . it seems to me the final clause cahnges the situation and focus of the sentence . why not ok ? finally , i must apologize to you all about the use of " scold " in the final two sentences . one person reminded me of the bad implication of husband 's scolding his wife . i did n't notice it . in japan , too , a husband who " scold " his wife is an arrogant person these days . thank you very much for your help . please make further comments , if any , on this usage . i ' ll be glad to make a reply . hiroaki tanaka associate professor faculty of integrated arts and sciences tokushima university , japan 1 - 1 , minamijousanjioma , tokushima , 770 , japan phone & fax : + 81 886 56 7125 e-mail : hiro-t @ ias . tokushima-u . ac . jp
