Subject: currency names - summary

months ago i sent a question out on the linguist list about some currency names . i got a number of responses , but being both lazy and busy , it has taken me much too long to send out a summary . but now , for those who have - - maybe - - been waiting for it , here it comes . i will not say anything about the scientific value of it , but interesting is it ( it might e . g . be , that all the " r . . . l " words are " after f [ rench ] ( and sp [ anish ] ) models and are indeed cognate with royal " , and the rupee and the rubl are not related to either the " r . . . l " words or each other at all ) . - - i have somewhat shortened the responses , where necessary . veturlidi oskarsson veturosk @ ismal . hi . is - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - the request as it was sent on march 27 , 1995 : > does anybody know the etymology of the following currency names : > rial ( iran , oman , north yemen ) > riyal ( saudi arabia , quatar ) > riel ( cambodia ) > real ( brazil ) > and maybe other similar names beginning with ri / re end ending with l ? > would it be possible that those names are of the same ( ie . ) origin , > originally refering to kingdom e . t . c . ( cf . regal ) ? > ( what about the russian _ rubel _ , and the _ rupee _ in india e . t . c . ? ) > it would , in fact , not have to be that strange to have a currency name > of the same origin in countries as far away from each other as brazil > and cambodia , as currency names do not seem to > follow any " national " > rules . > cf . the name _ dollar _ ( in use in almost 60 countries ( comes originally > from the german _ thaler _ , but has supposedly spread out under the > influence of usd ) ) , and the many variations of the word " crown " > ( icelandic kr / ona , danish krone , estonian kroon , czechish korun e . t . c ) , > and _ dinar _ in various ( arabic ) countries . > veturlidi oskarsson > icelandic language institute reykjavik , iceland > e-mail : veturosk @ ismal . hi . is 1 . response : " real " ( brazil ) is certainly from latin , meaning " the king 's money " . i would bet the other r . . . l words are unrelated , although i can't give etymologies for them . - - note that " dinar " is actually of latin origin ( denarius ) , via greek . john cowan 2 . response : spanish and portuguese " real " mean " royal " ( the king 's currency ) . i have no idea whether this got picked up into arabic and cambodian as " riyal " etc . - - sanskrit " rupaya " ( " rupee " ) is different although at the moment i can't recall what it means . michael a . covington the university of georgia , usa 3 . response : the czech currency unit ( " crown " in english ) is called " koruna " in the nominative singular . the form you gave , " korun " , with a long / u / is the genetive plural form , which has a zero ending and is used with numbers over 5 . therefore you get " 1 koruna " , " 2 koruny " , but " 5 korun " . the german word " thaler " ( whence " dollar " ) comes from an earlier word " joachimsthaler " , which designated a coin minted from the high-quality silver mined during the middle ages at the town of joachimsthal ( " thal " = valley ) , which now bears the czech name jachimov . jachimov is in the west bohemian region of the czech republic . james kirchner 4 . response : the russian word * rubl ' * is not related to * real * , * rial * , etc . the word is an old past passive participle ( " l-participle " ) of the verb * rubit ' * ' to chop . ' gold ingots were originally * chopped * into small ( eventually , circular ) pieces and used as coins . in contemporary russian , the past passive participle of this verb is * rublennyj * ( e . g . , * rublennoe mjaso * ' chopped meat ' ) . gary h . toops wichita state university 5 . response : " real " in portuguese / spanish is cognate with " royal " and " regal . " my hunch is because it was currency backed by the crown , but it 's a hunch . it would be interesting to be able to do something like prove that the spanish / portuguese used the term ' real , ' which was picked up by the moors and carried with islamic invaders into se asia . also difficult . the russian " rubl ' " is a bit more than a hunch - - it derives from the word for " cut " : rubit ' ' to cut ' , and other words . check out fasmer 's ( vasmer 's ) etymological dictionary , available in german or russian . i was told by a slavic professor that this is cognate to " rupee , " but the guy was going around the bend and could easily be wrong on that point . t . beasley ucla 6 . response : the rial words are all originally " after f [ rench ] ( and sp [ anish ] ) models " and are indeed cognate with royal . in england a gold coin of this name was issued in 1465 , and there were french , spanish and scottish coins of the same name over the 15 and 16c . the name seems to have travelled with the maritime empires . dollar also has a complicated history . starting as the english version of thaler ( a coin of the german states ) it then was used for the large spanish coin ( worth 8 reales ) of spain . because of the importance of the spanish maritime influence and of its currency , the term became very widespread and was used ( even in parts of the british empire , such as the straits settlements - - we still use dollars here in singapore ) in many places , including in the us . you cannot assume that the use of dollar is a sign of american influence . rupee is different , coming from a sanskrit word for silver , it is of indian origin . anthea fraser national university of singapore 7 . response : according to vasmer 's etymological dictionary of russian , rubl ' ( gen . sg . rublj ' a ( stress on ending ) ) shares a root with the verb rubit ' ' hack ' and meant ' hacked off piece of a grivna ( larger unit of currency ) ' . gladney 8 . response : russian rubl ' is not related to rial / real . it comes from a root meaning ' cut ' . the origin of the term is from silver bars from which sections were clipped off ( otrubit ' in russian ) and used as currency . i remember visiting a church in moscow dedicated to the ' cut-off head of john the baptist ' ( otrublennoj golove ioanna predtechy ) . btw kopejka ( 1 \ 100 of a rubl ' ) means 's mall spear / lance ' and comes from the depiction of st . george killing the dragon which was the symbol printed on it . the russian word for money - 'd en ' gi ' - is of turkic origin and is one of several in the russian language coming from a turkic root meaning 's tamp ' . incidentally , i ' m pleased to see that the slovenian currency is the toler - one more from dollar . geraint jennings 9 . response : panamanians use the term real for a 5 centavo piece . it was interesting to me because the currency is in balboas & centavos , but , as with american money , this coin had its own name . as far as i know , it was the only coin that had its own name ( i lived there for 11 years ) . it was also a type of test in the marketplace to determine who was " local " & who was n't . when the price quoted to me was " 2 reales " & i pulled out the exact change , they knew i was n't a tourist ! the word real means royal in spanish , but i do n't know why the 5 centavo piece would be called such . caroline l . steele university of hawaii 10 . response : according to klein ' s comprehensive etymological dictionary of the english language , * rial * , * riyal * are from spanish * real * ( < latin regalem ) to which portuguese * real * is obviously related . i have no info on * riel * . the russian * ruble * and indian * rupee * are not related to the above nor to each other . they both come from indigenous words . marc picard 11 . response : according to the macmillan dictionary of measurement , the first real ( ` royal ' ) was a small silver coin issued by the spanish royal mint . rupya ( > rupee ) is an ancient indian word for ` ( metal made into ) coinage ' , and ruble may be related . dinar comes from latin denarius , a coin worth ten asses ( a word related to ace ) . anton sherwood 12 . response : . . . " real " was also the name of a old gold or silver coin in the kingdoms of castile , portugal and aragon ( later in spanish america ) . the first dated ' real ' was coined in castile in the middle of the 14th century . they were called ' real ' because they were coined by the crown , in opposition to local coins coined by bishops , counts and noblemen . according to my sources of information ( enciclopedia larousse - spanish version ) , there were ' reals ' in france too . in the 14th century , the iberian peninsula was divided in several territories : three christian kingdoms : castile , aragon and portugal , and a lot of small moorish kingdoms ( called ' taifas ' ) . it is not unlikely , thus , that the name for the ' real ' had been taken in arabic as ' riyal ' . one curiosity : in contemporary spanish , the sentence ' no tengo un real ' ( literally : i have not a real ) means ' i have not a dime ' ( the same in catalan : no tinc un ral ' ) . j . carlos ruiz universitat jaume i castells 13 . response : in the case of brazil 's real , the currency is named after an old currency which was always referred to in the plural as ' reis ' and ' mirreis ' ( thousands ) . ' real ' means ' royal ' , and so does ' reis ' , i suppose . tony berber sardinha university of liverpool 14 . response : ( translated from icelandic : ) the russian word rubl is in no way related to the " r . . . l " currencies . in russian the word is _ rubl ' _ ( ' = palatalization ) , and comes from the verb _ rubit ' _ ' chop , hew ' . the explanation is , as far as i know , that the coin was minted by punching it from a metal plate with a special puncher or stamping iron . the " l " is not a suffix , as one could expect , but come from * bj , * mj etc . ( labial cons . + j ) , that changed to * bl ' , * ml ' etc . in proto slavic . so , it is ie . * roubh-jo - s , or something like that , that lies behind the rubl . i do n't know about the arabian word _ ri ( y ) al _ ( which i suspect to have a long a : ) . it could very well be of semitic origin , both the number and and type of root consonants ( r-y - l ) , and " cv - type " ( cvcvvc , cf . kita : b ' book ' ) could support that . gunnar ol . hansson 15 . response : hinds and badawi 's dict . of egyptian arabic ( 1986 ) indicates that riyaal , twenty piastres or a twenty-piastre piece , derives from spanish real . kirk belnap brigham young university 16 . response : as far as i , as a layperson , know , the word " real " in continental spanish was in fact in use until the begining of the 20th century ( my grandmothers used it , as well as my father , in everyday speech ) . i am not sure what portion of a peseta this amount was ( whether it was a portion of a cent or viceversa , i could ask if you want to know ) . i suspect that , at least the word real in portuguese ( or brazilian ) comes from the spanish one , and as you know , the spanish ' real ' means of course ' royal ' . nuria lopez ortega cornell university - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - thank you all . veturlidi oskarsson
