Subject: sum : written signs in speech

content - length : 18171 i ' m very grateful to those who responded - with such interesting references , comments and examples - to my query about written signs being transferred to speech , and apologize that i could n't thank everyone individually . those who replied were : agnes roman ( aromi @ eratos . erin . utoronto . ca ) peter jones ( jonep @ dg13 . cec . be ) deborah milam berkley ( dberkley @ u . washington . edu ) karen gammelgaard ( karen . gammelgaard @ easteur-orient . uio . no ) gail stygall ( stygall @ u . washington . edu ) " rebecca larche moreton ( becky ) " ( mlrlm @ vm . cc . olemiss . edu ) robert dale ( rdale @ microsoft . com ) " karen s . chung " ( karchung @ ccms . ntu . edu . tw ) peter - arno coppen ( u250005 @ vm . uci . kun . nl ) " dr . christian k . nelson " ( cnelson @ vm . cc . purdue . edu ) philippe mennecier ( ferry @ cimrs1 . mnhn . fr ) " e . h . klein - v . d . laaken " ( klein @ let . rug . nl ) stephen p spackman ( spackman @ dfki . uni-sb . de ) " john m . jeep " ( jjeep @ miamiu . acs . muohio . edu ) bill king ( wfking @ ccit . arizona . edu ) james kirchner ( jpkirchner @ aol . com ) my original posting asked about such sentences as : we used to believe that " real " men did n't show their emotions which i thought could be expressed in speech as : we used to believe that real - in quotation marks - men . . . or we used to believe that quote real ( unquote ) men . . . or by ' imitating ' double quotation marks with one or two fingers of both hands when pronouncing ' real ' . other examples were the use of the word ' period ' : elvis was the greatest there ever was , period . and ' underline ' , ' unterstreichen ' and 's ouligner ' to mean ' emphasize ' . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * roman agnes ( aromi @ eratos . erin . utoronto . ca ) just a few exemples from hungarian ; 1 . " megirod a leckedet , pont . " = you ' ll write your homework , period . ( meaning : strict order , no further discussion permitted . ) 2 . " eljott kati is , zarojelben megjegyzem , nagyon ideges volt . . . " = kathy came too , [ and ] i note in parentheses , she was very nervous . ( meaning : i make a " side " comment ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * jones peter ( jonep @ dg13 . cec . be ) the french use ' full stop ' with even more emphasis - point , a la ligne . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * deborah milam berkley ( dberkley @ u . washington . edu ) this is n't a serious scholarly answer to your query . have you ever heard victor borge 's routine on so-called " phonetic punctuation " ? it 's awfully funny . he does it on the video of his 80th birthday celebration at wolf trap in the u . s . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * karen . gammelgaard @ easteur-orient . uio . no a good introduction to problems of transferring written signs to speech and vice versa is josef vachek ( 1989 ) , written language revisited , amsterdam - philadelphia : john benjamins . your example with the use of period meaning no more discussion necessary has equivalents in czech and danish . czech : " elvis byl nejvetsi zpevak vsech dob , tecka . " ( tecka = period ) danish : " elvis var tidernes st | rste , punktum " ( punktum = period ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * gail stygall ( stygall @ u . washington . edu ) author : dillon , george l . title : my words of an other . year : 1988 language : english pub . type : journal article ; evaluative report ; position paper source : college english ; v50 n1 p63 - 73 jan 1988 abstract : considers the conventions of quotation marks - - or " perverted commas " - - and identifies seven uses , including shudder quotes ( slang or inappropriate words ) and scare quotes ( used for attention or emphasis ) . notes that quotation marks influence meaning and that finding a personal voice entails using language without quotes . ( mm ) subject major : punctuation . subject minor : discourse - analysis . higher - education . plagiarism . semantics . writing - composition identifiers : quotations . voice - rhetoric . word - choice . word - potency . writing - attitudes . writing - style . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * " rebecca larche moreton ( becky ) " ( mlrlm @ vm . cc . olemiss . edu ) your first example of punctuation that has been put into a spoken sentence is interesting because the quotation marks around " real " in " real " man are the written way of expressing ironic emphasis in the voice that would otherwise be lost in print . then , reading from the page , or pretending to do so , the speaker says : real , quote-unquote , or makes one of the bracketing gestures y ou mention , but i 'd be willing to bet he also puts the extra stress on the work real , just as he would have done if he had n't said quote - unquote . so the irony is doubly marked . in the other example , in your irrefutable statement about the king , the word period serves as an emphatic sentence particle . this is not the meaning of an actual period , which in print serves simply to show the end of a sentence . there are , then , two different things going on in the two examples . i have heard people who really wanted to cut off further debate say things like : you are not going out tonight , period , period ! with the first period on a low pitch and the second one higher and much louder . the second period has emphatic stress , i . e . , is higher and louder than the first , which has end-of - sentence pitch and a stress . as for other examples , the only ones that come to mind right now are those involving the decimal system : in french , one says " sept virgule trois " for 7 , 3 just as we say seven point three . this must have parallels in other languages . by the way , since you are interested in this , maybe you 'd enjoy hearing the phonetic punctuation routines of the danish - born pianist and comedian victor borge . he has a system of indicating punctuation by means of various mouth-noises , usually as rude as possible , which makes for some hilarious patter . it has been a long time since i heard him , but i believe his records are still available . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * robert dale ( rdale @ microsoft . com ) what 's your take on the use of the word " parenthetically " as in parenthetically , i should say here that . . . stretching it a bit further , how about " item " in the following ( not at all convinced by this one but just in case ) : there are some things we should get straight here . item : no smoking in class ; item : no eating in class . . . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * " karen s . chung " ( karchung @ ccms . ntu . edu . tw ) this happens when certain words are borrowed from the local dialect , ' taiwanese ' ( or ' southern min ' ) , into the standard national language , mandarin , via latin letters to represent the taiwanese sound . e . g . a local variety of lettuce is called in taiwanese e5 a2 chhai3 , and perhaps most people call it by its taiwanese name rather than its mandarin name , wo1 ju4 . but then it became common to represent the taiwanese term in writing thus : a cai4 . people subsequently started pronouncing it like it was written , which is quite unlike the taiwanese compound on which it was based . the same has happened with the taiwanese term for 's pringy ' ( in reference e . g to rice ) : khiu7 became q . this raised the tone from a middle level to high level ( there is no middle level tone in mandarin ) . i can give you a reference on this : hansell , mark ( mhansell @ carleton . edu ) . _ the sino - alphabet : the assimilation of roman letters into the chinese writing system _ . philadelphia : sino - platonic papers , no . 45 , may 1994 . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * peter - arno coppen ( u250005 @ vm . uci . kun . nl ) i think the quotation marks can also be expressed by a characteristic intonation pattern ( starting the quoted part with a new tone word , with l * hl intonation ) . also , pronouncing quotation marks with " say " seems ( in some cases ) to be appropriate : i think that , say " intelligence " , has something to do with it about the origin : in the sixties / seventies , the danish comedian victor borge was rather successful with his " phonetic puntuation " , in which he e . g . " pronounced " quotation marks with two clicking sounds , accompanied by the finger sign you mentioned . this will surely not be the origin , but i saw many people imitating him since then . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * " dr . christian k . nelson " ( cnelson @ vm . cc . purdue . edu ) i ' m not sure , but think that what you ' re interested in might overlap with the phenomenon of " reported speech , " which bakhtin and his circle dealt with . perhaps there is a better reference for their work , but the one i ' m familiar with is v . n . volosinov 's ( 1973 ) _ marxism and the philosophy of language _ ( cambridge , ma : harvard univ . press ; l . matejka & i . r titunik , trans . ) . i should note that some believe this book was actually authored by bahktin , but bears volosinov 's name for political reasons . anyway , part 3 seems pertinent to your interests . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * philippe mennecier ferry @ cimrs1 . mnhn . fr the same phenomena exist in french : on a coutume de penser que les vrais hommes ( entre guillemets ) ne montrent pas leurs e / motions . ( your example ) , or the same - by ' imitating ' double quotation marks with * two * fingers of both hands when pronouncing " vrais hommes " . to break off further discussion , we say , as your " period " : " un point , c ' est tout . " it 's lexicalized . je ne le ferai pas , un point c ' est tout . ( i shall not do that , period ) note also , lexicalized : " entre parenthe / ses " ( " e " with " grave accent " ) or , better , " soit dit entre parenthe / ses " ( by the way ) , in order to express a private comment . ( . . . ) ( soit dit ) entre parenthe / ses , il n ' est pas tre 's malin . ( by the way , between ourselves , he is not very clever ) of course , we can use other expression by irony , like : i said that with points of suspension ( avec des points de suspension ) , but it is not lexicalized . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * " e . h . klein - v . d . laaken " ( klein @ let . rug . nl ) i can contribute some dutch examples : je gaat vanavond niet weg , punt uit ! you go tonight not away , period end ! * meaning : end of discussion of het vlug genoeg gaat . . daar zet ik wat vraagtekens bij . whether it goes fast enough . . there i add some question marks . * meaning : i ' m not to sure about that hij onderstreepte nog eens hoe belangrijk dit was . he underlined once again how important this was . een echte - tussen aanhalingstekens - man . . a real - between quotation marks - man een echte man - tussen aanhalingstekens dan . . a real man - that is , between quotation marks . . tussen twee haakjes , wat doe jij vanavond ? between two brackets , what do you tonight ? * meaning : introducing a question unrelated to the discussion that goes on or has just finished . de boeren , die het , tussen twee haakjes , al gemakkelijker hebben dan vroeger , . . the farmers , who , between two brackets , have already an easier life than before , . . * meaning : an additional remark , that nevertheless has some importance i heard or read somewhere ( do n't know where , do n't know when ) that people use also keyboardstrikes in their talk , that would be a modern version of your question ; e . g . , f7 meaning ' i will remember ' ( from wordperfect ) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * i seem to recall that the last words of sellar & yateman ( spelling from memory ! ) _ 1066 and all that _ are " america was now clearly top nation and so history came to a full . " i ' m not sure what kind of example that is : - ) . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * " john m . jeep " ( jjeep @ miamiu . acs . muohio . edu ) the germans also say / use " in / mit gaensefuesschen " lit . 's mall goose feet ' , the colloquial expression for quotation marks , with similar elocutionary force . my suspicion is that this is a borrowing ( by academics ? ) from english and / or american , but of course these things are difficult to trace . there must be a technical term for the study of gestures ( the german term is ' gestik ' , from ' geste ' ' gesture ; the former being an abstract noun ' gesturing ' or the like ) . i seem to remember the same quotation marks gesture in the german usage ( german here means german language , not limited , in my mind , to german citizens ) . it is not uncommon for a german speaker , while lecturing , to use the middle finger [ sic ] to punctuate the first in a series of fingered ordinal numbers , although in a restaurant the thumb is used as ' 1 ' , thumb and pointer for ' 2 ' and so on . of course the obscene insult can be used as well , another borrowing ? * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * bill king wfking @ ccit . arizona . edu spoken ellipsis . " so , in the middle of the lecture she was saying that the rhetorical usage was changing dot dot dot . we got the message long before she finished . " * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * james kirchner jpkirchner @ aol . com the first time i became aware of this phenomenon was in the late ' 60s , when i was about 12 , and some british " progressive rock " song was being played on the radio here in detroit ( do n't remember the name or the group ) . it began with a spoken part mimicking a preacher or professor and he was pronouncing the letters of the abbreviation " i . e . " rather than saying " as in " : " . . . [ ? aj ? i : ] society , [ ? aj ? i : ] the church . . . " this spoken " i . e . " is so common here in the states that , despite being a " highly literate " person , i did n't know it meant " as in " until a year or two ago when my czech - born teaching colleagues in europe told me . i still do n't believe the two mean the same thing anymore in colloquial speech . people here also pronounce " e . g . " for " for example " , " a k a " for " also known as " , and latin abbreviations are often pronounced as written , such as " et al " for " and others " . the french " a la " used in the sense of " after the fashion of " is so commonly spoken that i now see it written as a word " ala " . the most common rendering of the written quotation marks here is a sort of quickly spoken compound word " quoteunquote " , as in , " he 's not a quoteunquote * real * man . " ( the emphasis always follows . ) business offices are full of spoken acronyms spoken such as " cya " ( from " cover your ass " ) to mean a nearly superfluous blame prevention precaution or fact verification measure one takes when doing a particular job ( " do it as a cya " or " this is just a cya measure " ) . " kma " from " kiss my ass " , in ad agencies , designates a job people have to do free on their own time , e . g . , because it 's for their boss 's favorite charity ( " this is just a kma so do n't hurry . " or " it 's a kma job , but you still have to rush it , i ' m really sorry . " ) asap " as soon as possible " is pronounced as a word sounding nearly like " ass at " . i suppose the classic case of such a thing is the originally military word " snafu " , which stood for " situation normal - - all fucked up " . check this if it 's useful , but i swear i heard people in the czech republic colloquially using the letters of their abbreviation " atd . " instead of the full " a tak dale " to mean " for example " . closer to what you ' re asking for would be the growing use of the phrase " question mark " over here to mean simply something unknown : " this event leaves a big question mark over the whole project . " you know , this phenomenon is n't only confined to speech . here is a sentence from the letters column of the january 30 , 1995 u . s . edition of time magazine : " those of us who have to use pcs at work but choose to have macs at home know that macs , while not problem free , are far and away superior to pc compatibles , period ! " notice this use of " period " followed by an exclamation point . the word period in this usage has been reanalysed to such a degree that it 's not uncommon in the u . s . to hear emphatic statements like the following : " i ' m not going period ! exclamation point ! " " period " has thus come to mean something like " in any case " . americans also say " slash " to designate " / " : " he 's kind of a carpenter slash bricklayer . " " it 's more or less like a cafe slash bookshop . " " if he slash she has a gender , * i * sure can't tell ! " we also say " hyphen " in a similar way : " he 's an actor hyphen tennis pro . " also do n't forget the emergence over the last 20 years or so of the term " bottom line " , describing the sum of an arithmetic problem or an accounting ledger , and used to mean " the summation " or " the point of the matter " . in the 1970s i heard it mainly in two set forms , the question , " what 's the bottom line ? " ( i . e . , what 's the point ? ) and a main clause " the bottom line is that . . . " ( i . e . , what i ' m getting at is . . . ) . now it 's become sort of a complementizer as well , so you hear things like : " he gave me this big runaround about how his wife was sick , and he had to do overtime at work , and he 's got an exam coming , and all this crap , bottom line he 's not gonna come . " i ' ve also heard people , who want to end useless heated discussion of something and move on to another point , yell things like , " wait a minute ! . . . . . new paragraph ! " some of this stuff almost sounds like people are thinking in comic strip images : " there 's a question mark hanging over him . " ( i . e . , his fate is uncertain ) . this is similar to idioms that most certainly have such origins , such as , " i just saw a light bulb over your head . what 's your idea ? " the germans read the comma aloud in their decimals much as we here say " point " , so american 1 . 0 " one point zero " would be german 1 , 0 " eins komma null " .
